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General discussion most welcome. Do you think, for instance, that there are lots of men out there who get broody but feel that they should conceal it as it's Not What Manly Men Do? Any strong opinions on the number of people required to raise a child?
ETA: I just realised that I phrased the "Children?" question ambiguously. The first three options are not for how many children you would like, but how many you have already, so the answers from those three options should add up to 100%. Right now they add up to 55%, which is how I realised that I phrased the question wrong. Would people mind going back and changing that, if they can be bothered?
Generally, if I've left out suitable options, just tick "other" if I've given that and explain in the comments. No offence intended towards anyone, I did this poll fairly fast while relatively sleepy and just didn't think of all the possibilities.
The question on using assisted reproduction is only if you think you may actually need it. And oh blast, I forgot adoption. Ach, just tick "other" and chat about that in the comments. If you make a mistake in the poll, click on the poll number, then "fill out poll", and you can change your answers.
[Poll #1028754]
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Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 02:12 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 02:14 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 02:20 pm (UTC)From:(Now that I think about it, I think that at the end of the day, I probably wouldn't be comfortable donating eggs - the idea of having children out there that you don't know and won't ever see is just too odd.)
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Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 02:24 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 03:03 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 03:04 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 03:24 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 06:59 pm (UTC)From:Yes, I do think that men get broody, but most feel inclined to hide it. I hope so, anyway: I'd hate to be the only one. But then, I've never been one to let societies idea of "manliness" affect my behaviour and attitudes, and by and large think the world would be a far better place if people would let go of their ideas of "manly" and "womanly" behaviour.
I get stupidly broody, and sometimes it drives me mental! It's usually babies, but sometimes older children can set me off, or sometimes my cat! Or sometimes a chain-reaction of thought, whether it follows a sexual fantasy, or an idle thought about children, or a daydream of my future (complete with children), or the fear that I might never find the right woman - or that I might end up in a long-term relationship with a man, or that the "right woman" in other ways might not want kids or be able to have them. Yeah. Lots of fear.
Sometimes I find a children's book which is just so brilliant for kids it makes me want some just to share it with them. Or if I see someone (especially a man) doing good parenty things of which I aprove. Or, worse, parenty things of which I disaprove! That makes me think "I'd be a much better parent than that!"
So, yes. Clearly I am a woman trapped in a man's body, and must arrange the operation at once!
I didn't click the "can't afford it" or "not right time financially" buttons because poor people often make a damn fine job of being parents. The idea that they can't strikes me as a very unappealing, middle-class notion.
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Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 07:58 pm (UTC)From:Assisted reproduction isn't about skipping doing things the natural way, I'm not quite sure what you meant by "Letting one skip it strikes me as madness." The human reproductive system doesn't always work effectively, even with the best will in the world. My cousin, for instance, would be killed by a pregnancy. Nevertheless, she and her husband both have viable gametes and want children, so they're pursuing using a surrogate mother. Ignoring for the moment the ethical issues of creating multiple embryos, what's your objection to their following this route? What about a same-sex couple who want kids, what do you think they should do? Or transsexuals?
But then, I've never been one to let societies idea of "manliness" affect my behaviour and attitudes, and by and large think the world would be a far better place if people would let go of their ideas of "manly" and "womanly" behaviour.
Hear, hear!
I reckon that more men get broody than are letting on, but suspect that it's still fewer men than women. There seems to be a strong hormonal component with women, for starters, and all that socialisation is going to make some difference. Even if you take a man and a woman who both have no interest in having children whatsoever, the difference is that the woman is going to get hassled more about it.
So, yes. Clearly I am a woman trapped in a man's body, and must arrange the operation at once!
Joking aside (and please be careful with that subject, it's a delicate one and I know of at least one trans person reading my journal), gender reassignment surgery can't provide reproductive capability, it can't always even provide full sexual function (MTFs do better than FTMs here). A woman who is single but fertile and desperate for a baby can always arrange something, at worst being sneaky about unprotected one-night-stands (ethical issues with that, of course). A man in that situation just doesn't have the same choice, and I do feel for you there. Not to mention the risk that if you were to have kids in a relationship and the relationship were to break down, the kids usually end up with the mother. There are quite a lot of anti-fatherhood elements in our society.
I didn't click the "can't afford it" or "not right time financially" buttons because poor people often make a damn fine job of being parents. The idea that they can't strikes me as a very unappealing, middle-class notion.
It's nothing to do with class. It's to do with being at a stage in your life where you know that your income is less than you anticipate it to be in the future, career progression and so forth. I know perfectly well that at least some of the people answering this poll are barely making ends meet at the moment and absolutely could not afford the huge expense of raising a child, but should be earning more once their careers take off. I'd rather give my hypothetical children the best upbringing they can, and I can't see anything wrong with waiting five or ten years (depending on age and job) if you know your income is going to double or more, not to mention the question of savings. Look at, for instance, the difference between doing a teacher training course (grant of up to £4K a year) and earning the salary you'd get after a few years in teaching.
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Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 10:46 pm (UTC)From:Financially, I couldn't have children now because I barely earn enough to feed myself. That said, I do think
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Date: Saturday, 28 July 2007 01:21 pm (UTC)From:And yes, I'm talking about not being able to support children when you're at the level where you're barely earning enough to feed yourself and don't know where you'll be working in two years' time, rather than fussing about being able to afford Baby Gap and food from M&S.
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Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 09:23 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: Friday, 27 July 2007 09:57 pm (UTC)From:How's Danny doing?
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Date: Saturday, 28 July 2007 03:25 pm (UTC)From:no subject
Date: Saturday, 28 July 2007 01:45 am (UTC)From:With the EDS having Jamie young was a good thing - I won't have to race the clock whilst having more mobility issues. I did really well for 37 weeks of pregnancy then my body started to fail, so I can imagine if I was too much older it would have been worse. This way I can wait 5 years to have another and still only be 30. Not so good financially, but we're getting there. I may have to consider assisted reproduction with a surrogate Mother (with our own eggs/sperm), but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I'm not able to donate eggs as EDS is an autosomal dominant condition, so there's 50% chance of heritability. Luckily Jamie seems unaffected. It wasn't so good that he was unplanned, but he's wonderful and I wouldn't be without him now.
My partner was way more broody than me - he wanted kids and was thrilled when I told him I was pregnant (I was in tears, and not good ones!) and he was happy about the pregnancy and impending parenthood, whereas I've always been ambivalent and have been verging on postnatal depression until these past couple of days. I think this is because of him being older than me - 3 years may not be a lot, but I think that him at 25 wouldn't have really wanted kids right then either, whilst him at 28 couldn't wait.
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Date: Saturday, 28 July 2007 12:44 pm (UTC)From:I think broodiness kicks in at different times for different people. The two men I've known who are extremely broody have been like that since they were in their late teens. I'm 29 and not particularly broody, I have my moments but they're not that common. On the other hand, I am realising that I may not have much time left, considering that I'd want to be recovered from the ME to the point where I was definitely fit for childrearing (full or near-full recovery) for at least two years before risking having a child, and right now I've had the ME for ten years and it's never shown any sign of going away.
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Date: Friday, 14 December 2007 04:48 pm (UTC)From:I'm an organ donor, but I would not donate eggs because it's too complicated and hormonally destructive and painful and ugh! If I had sperm, sure, take it - bear my children, have fun - but eggs are too internal.
Just to clarify :o)